Combatting China’s Encroaching Influence in Taiwan: Interview with Karen Yu

After meeting a staff in Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Legislator Karen Yu’s office in June in Washington DC, I was told that members of the have been working on a bill aimed to combat China’s influence operations in Taiwan. 

During my trip back to Taiwan in August, I visited Legislator Yu’s office to learn more about the bill and why Taiwan needs such measures now. It was especially surprising to see how Chinese influence have become significantly more intense since I left Taiwan in 2017.

Can you tell what the proposal for a Foreign Influence Transparency Act (境外勢力影響透明化法) is about? Why do we need such a law in Taiwan and what problems does it address?

In the past, countries around the world were hopeful about developing peacefully with China. But now, with an increasingly ambitious and authoritarian Chinese Communist Party (CCP), it is becoming harder for us to see China as a country that embraces international peace. We are now increasingly aware of China’s use of “sharp power,” which Taiwan is at the forefront of. Taiwan’s infiltration by China’s use of Sharp power is different from other targets.

In other countries, policymakers can make elements such as Confucius Institutes identifiable. But in Taiwan, influence operations are also conducted at the grassroot level: local temples, ward chiefs (里長), taxi drivers, and school officials are now also being courted by China.

I actually personally encountered a taxi driver who was trying to propagate pro-China messages. Being a DPP legislator, I know for one that taxi drivers are usually supporters of the pan-Green coalition. They typically play pan-Green radio stations and talk about the February 28th incident. But this one was different. He was trying to chat with me about Chinese and Confucian culture.

I asked him why he wanted to share these things with me. He told me that he had attended a cross-strait exchange program with his ward chief. Previously, I assumed that these events targeted top officials, but this taxi driver told me that his ward chief was a frequent attendee, and would try to get other community members to go on the trip; the costs of these trips are pretty inexpensive. After attending these events, he told me, he realized how great Chinese culture was and wanted to spread the knowledge to others. He even gave me a CD for if I wanted to learn more.

Activities of this sort are not just rumors. There are many scholars studying this as well. We’ve since realized that these type of infiltration is occurring at every level. There are also cases where graduate students attend these programs, and thought that the goal of these was to conduct United Front Work.

That’s why we want to introduce this foreign agent registration act. We hope that by revealing more information about these types of activities, the public can become more aware of the nature of these political work.

In practice, Taiwan is already an independent country. We control our own military, population, and government through a democratic election. Despite so, many politicians and party still sees or wants Taiwan to be “a part of” China. How will this bill then define “foreign agent” in the context of controversies surrounding Taiwan’s national identity?

Right now, for China affairs we have the Mainland Affairs Council (MAC). However, if an organization is registered abroad in a country that is not Taiwan or China, the MAC would not be responsible for this. The MAC is a special organ aimed to handle China, Hong Kong, and Macau affairs. It is governed under the “Cross-Strait Act” – the Act Governing Relations between the People of the Taiwan Area and the Mainland Area (兩岸人民關係法). So since we know that the CCP can easily register an organization outside of China and Taiwan as a proxy to conduct infiltration work, we need a law that can cover attempts at circumvention. Just amending the Cross-strait Act would be insufficient.

To go back to the main point, we’ve started to realize that China’s rise is not a peaceful one. It’s expanding its authoritarian system abroad. Both Europe and America are starting to change their attitude towards China. Though we are starting to amend five existing laws to better serve our national security through the Five National Security Act campaign (國安五法), these amendments will be imposing post-infringements punishments. There is an issue in this – that there are no framework to prevent infiltration from happening in the first place.

If we do not have an early warning, preventative system, China is going to play with loopholes. Taiwan is a democratic country and China will attempt to manipulate our election, undermining democracy and taking away our freedom.

We will define “foreign entities” as foreign governments and its subsidiary organizations, political organizations, institutions, and groups. “Foreign agent” will be defined as domestic entities which have ties with foreign entities, and be in an “agent-to-client” relationship with foreign entities. This relationship would encompass activities such as employment, delegation of work, taking and issuing commands, and engagement of political work in Taiwan.

Many scholars abroad and domestic, such as NTU’s Professor Puma Shen and Project 2049’s Marks Stokes (a former colleague) have studied the Chinese Communist Party’s political and informational warfare. They would generally agree that Beijing has actively been trying to exert their influence in Taiwan. Could you speak of any specific cases relevant to these types of operations?

There are many low-cost travel programs to China that exist in Taiwan. One just needs to pay for airfare, and organizations on the Chinese side will take care of everything else, starting from the moment one lands. Some of these low-cost travel programs last longer than a week. Most of these include introducing the local groups and people and often include political events. Even visits to the Taiwan Affairs Office are complementary in programs like these. Typically, sponsor organizations are longtime supporters of unification – Alliance for the Reunification of China (中國統一聯盟), All China Taiwanese Association (台灣同胞聯營會), etc. There is actually a book store near National Taiwan University that are actively recruiting people to go on these trips.

One student who has participated in these trips told me that within Taiwan, groups typically recruit attendees in the name of “facilitating cultural exchange.” However, the corresponding organization in China would usually be the governmental Taiwan Offices (台辦). Everywhere in China, offices handling Taiwan affairs exist at all levels. The primary purposes of these are to reach out to Taiwanese people and conduct United Front work.

If they are really conducting cultural exchange program, why are governmental organs involved? The American government doesn’t do this, for one. I’ve participated in the US International Visitor Leadership Program (IVLP). Though it was a State Department public diplomacy program, it was a nonprofit organization that actually handled the program’s day to day events.

In contrast, China has made clear that their exchange programs are “white gloves.” Often times itinerary include propaganda on topics like One Belt One Road, the success of young Taiwanese entrepreneurs in China, etc. This is done to to make the saying “Two sides, one family” narrative stronger. But in Taiwan, even students can differentiate between the authentic and the politicized.

Another example of people-to-people exchanges being exploited is college recruitment. Some colleges in Taiwan, for example, want to recruit as many students from China as it could. However, some professors have stronger stances on China’s governance, freedom, and democratic development. China would usually apply pressure and threaten to limit the number of students to elicit self-censorship from Taiwanese universities.

Usually, universities are given a quota. This quota can be dependent on how much the Chinese government liked university curricula. If there are any signs that concepts like liberalism, democracy, and freedom are being taught – as reported back to China by Chinese students – then these quotas are at risk of being reduced. This is the same method used to control the number of tourists for political purposes.

There are organizations that are taking money from China and acting in their interest. This is what “red media” is about. But though a Taiwanese media company was revealed by Reuters and Financial Times to have cooperated with the Chinese government, the media company itself was able to meddle with the controversy and present disinformation for its own interests. Some pro-Beijing politicians would praise China while putting Taiwan down.

Some of the narratives presented by these elements would demoralize the public and would undermine trust in the governing system of Taiwan. Though Taiwan is making advances every day in terms of democratic development, some Taiwanese who are taking Chinese cash are afraid of criticizing China. They engage in self censorship.

Organizations such as Chinese Unification Promotion Party (統促黨) Patriot Alliance Association (愛國同心會) are likely funded by the Chinese government, but are not required by law to disclose their ties. These are organizations that publically put up the PRC flag and harass opponents like Falun Gong.

In previous statements to the press there has been references to the US Foreign Agent Registration Act of 1938. Taiwan however has had a different political environment. How will Taiwan’s own foreign agent bill be phrased and executed in the context of the American counterpart?

Taiwan has always had pro-Beijing politicians. It is unlike the anti-Communist consensus that exists in the US. Taiwan is not a tightly unified society. For example, the Patriot Alliance Association would publicly celebrate PRC’s five-starred flag and at the same time accusing us of suppressing freedom of speech when responses are made. One time on a talk show, KMT legislator Hsu Chiao-hsin (徐巧芯) alleged that I intend to “kill the Republic of China (ROC).” Ironically, since the ROC constitution compels me to protect democracy, those of us working on this bill are actually protectors of ROC.

Taiwan has long been divided along the line of whether it should eventually integrate to become a part of China or declare a de-jure independence. China is a tough opponent. Our languages are the same and we look the same; infiltrating Taiwan is easy. Through the internet, we can often identify trolls attempting to influence public discourse from authentic users. But tactics have been evolving and they’ve been entering the social media realm, such as Facebook, with efficiency.

Whenever I talk about Hong Kong, a lot of Chinese users would reply to my post. When I made a post on the Hong Konger girl who lost an eye to a shot fired by the police on Facebook, trolls would come out and make fake accusations like “she blinded herself for attention.”

Compared to the American version of FARA, our times are different. Social media and cyber space makes defending against influence operations hard. Added on top are nuances like culture, language, unification versus independence. We could only try to imitate FARA’s spirit.

Though the Foreign Agent Registration Act has existed in the US for many years, different political parties have debated over what “foreign agents” are. Do you think there would be a similar issue in Taiwan, a society that has traditionally been divided between the “pan-blue” and “pan-green” camps?

The Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) is very strange. My dad is “solidly blue” and he was staunchly anti-communist. But over the years, the KMT party seemed to have become some sort of a political broker for Beijing in an attempt to acquire political benefits. For example, former Vice President Lien Chan (連戰) has been doing extremely well in China. The party has been given many small favors in exchange for following the CCP. It’s likely so because many of them are interested in doing business with China.

The KMT from my perspective has very few core principles now. No longer do they see the communists as enemies. For example, when the CCP demanded that Taiwanese performer Ouyang Nana call Taiwan “Taiwan, China,” her father Ouyang Long, a spokesperson for the KMT, directed blame onto the DPP instead.

In a sense, it was a strange feeling. It almost feels like he’s saying “my daughter needs to make money in China, so we gotta sell Taiwan’s sovereignty.” He isn’t in a position to stand up to China, so he blames those he could. Accusations like “President Tsai is playing isolationism and locking up Taiwan to the rest of the world” and “if Tsai governs, Taiwan will never develop” are just some of them.

Really, China’s probably the one they should be talking about. China’s ban on participation in Taiwan’s Golden Horse Award for film and on individual travel to Taiwan probably shows its own insecurity with letting people see how having freedom of speech feels like. So between two of our main parties, one has already given up resisting the Communist threat.

For the KMT to reap benefit from serving as Beijing’s Taiwan proxy, it has consistently tried to bring the people of Taiwan closer to Beijing. The KMT has proposed a faux dilemma, that supposedly if we want to defend Taiwan’s freedom and autonomy, there would be no peace. That a peace agreement is necessary if we want peace. In the past, they could use the “1992 consensus” as a talking point. After the KMT officials met with CCP officials in 1992, there was supposedly this consensus. However, while KMT defined the consensus as “one China, separate representation,” the CCP considers this “consensus” to be “Taiwan should be a part of China under ‘One Country, Two Systems.’”

Whether there was a consensus or not is a question in itself. Regardless, this has been the propaganda fed to the people of Taiwan for a long time. Older voters tend to feel coerced and think that if we maintain our sovereignty, China would invade, and that somehow if we cease fighting, China would send benefits, tourists, and buy the fruits we produce. Somehow, that’s how we’ve been taught to choose between peace and war.

So Taiwan has been divided along this line. But young people are very different. Because of the internet, there are many ways for one to independently find information, make judgement, and think critically. They are able to realize that China and Taiwan have fundamentally different political systems. It is easier for them to see through China’s authoritarian system and its lack of transparency. It’s just something that is very different from the democratic values and freedom newer generations have been used to. Yes – there are political division as well as demographic divisions.

I know that there is more than one bill addressing this issue. There is also an amendment raised to the Act Governing Relations between the Straits (兩岸人民關係法) proposed by the DPP caucus and the Anti-Annexation and Infiltration Bill (反吞併滲透法) proposed by the New Power Party. Do you think these proposals conflict with each other, or can they fit nicely into one another? 

I think the different versions are totally compatible. The amendment to the cross-strait act is limits and punishments. I like to use an analogy to compare it. Infiltration is like a droplet of water making up a glass of water. Glasses of water eventually makes its way into a stream. Several streams make up an ocean and only when that ocean of water floods and causes damage do we realize there is a crisis.

What if we could track subtle threat from when it is just a small droplet of water? That’s what infiltration is. We want to ensure that preventative measures exist. The purpose of the act is that not to just punish and ban Chinese infiltration work, but also to have an eye on Chinese propaganda and pro-Beijing activities. We want to know whether foreign entities are in connection with activities in Taiwan.

We know that infiltration work can come from a third country besides China and Taiwan. Cyber footprints can easily be hidden, for example, via IP change. This is something that can’t be tracked under the Cross-strait Act we have. For example, China has the Alumni Association of the Huangpu Military Academy (黃埔軍校同學會), which has chapters globally. It has been recruiting Taiwanese members via the US chapter. We know that this organization is likely a part of an influence operations because their constitution called for the unification of China.

The NPP version is similar but would be enforced by a different executive agency. We believe that the Ministry of Justice is better for this because the process has to be transparent. The National Security Bureau, which the NPP version seeks to put this bill under, is typically more secretive. This is important because under the bill foreign entities will have to register with the designated executive agency.

Thank you for this informative discussion. Let me throw you a wildcard question. What is your favorite food in a Taiwanese night market?

I love oyster omelettes (蚵仔煎). Especially when the oyster is fresh, the sauce is good and gooey, with crusty crusts and eggs that smell good.

Special thanks to Syrena Lin for arranging this meeting with Legislator Yu.

(Feature photo courtesy of Milo Hsieh)